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Author Topic: +Memory = -HPM  (Read 2396 times)

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Offline tigerlore

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+Memory = -HPM
« on: April 03, 2014, 01:05:21 PM »
Hi,

I'm using bdver2 with my AMD 760k and getting 3.5 HPM, and core2 with my Core 2 Quad and getting .478. Do those sound like reasonable numbers?

I run them both with 1024m. I've tried 2x, 3x, and 4x that but the HPM drops, just a bit with the Core 2 but pretty significantly with the 760k. The 760k is also my day-to-day use machine. It has 2 physical cores with 2 logical cores each.

BTW, "Memory Coin Square" is a pretty good name. It's clever, yet friendly.

Offline Delinquency

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 03:42:15 PM »
Getting 3.5HPM with CPU Benchmark is great.
With my FX-8320 I grab 7 HPM when running YAM with 8GB and as an idle process...

I'd invest in an Intel i7 if you want long term lower power costs and higher hpm. What sucks is the initial price.

Offline tigerlore

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 04:02:32 PM »
Getting 3.5HPM with CPU Benchmark is great. With my FX-8320 I grab 7 HPM when running YAM with 8GB and as an idle process... 

Thanks. I felt like it was okay, but I got a little hung up over it not needing more memory.

I'd invest in an Intel i7 if you want long term lower power costs and higher hpm. What sucks is the initial price.

Yes, I'm going to invest in better hardware ASAP. Hopefully there'll still be MMC left to mine by the time I get the cash to do it.

Offline Delinquency

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 04:20:51 PM »
Don't worry, there will always be MMC to mine. It should even out through 2% inflation, after coins have been issued.

MMC will continue to be here in 10 years without volatility swings. Also by that time, MMC mining would depend mostly on electricity bills.

Offline yvg1900

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 05:42:21 PM »
Recent versions of yam will work with 1024M and any number of workers. However, more memory leads to less inter-worker thread contention and less thread synchronization overhead.

If you have fast RAM then it is definitely better to go for greater amounts of RAM (max. is 1024M*number of threads). On the other hand, if you have plenty of slow ram on slower server grade CPUs, it can be potentially better to use less than max RAM because of lower round times and lower share rejection ratios. Remember that every incomplete round is some unfinished (i.e. wasted) job, so increasing Complete/Incomplete ratio is important for earnings while may cause slightly lower HPM.

Check finetuning-mmc.txt and readme.txt from yam distribution for more details.
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Offline Delinquency

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 05:47:34 PM »
Welcome aboard Yvg1900,

I'd like to ask about the bottlenecks on the round time of YAM.
I have 8 threads running 8GB RAM on 1333MHZ (CPU @ 3.5GHz) [AMD]

If I upgraded RAM to something such as 2133MHZ or even DDR4 (When that comes out...) How much will my HPM increase?

Offline yvg1900

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »
Well, most important bottleneck is latency/throughput of AES-NI instructions on your CPU. This is what getting adjusted by different AVs.

Next one is memory bandwidth, so upgrading to faster RAM is very good. It will not speed up by the same ratio as RAM clock increase, but shall be definitely visible change. I have DDR3 2666Mhz in my labs (with 4770k), but I do not remember exact numbers from top of my head.

OCing RAM on dual E5-2697v2 to 1940 from 1666 was also a boost, I can measure later on.
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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 05:58:38 PM »
Can you explain why AMD Processors have less performance per GH than Intel Processors?
Is it the faster AVX optimizations or bad AMD architecture for AES-NI?

Offline yvg1900

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 06:07:50 PM »
It is because of lower instruction level parallelism for AES-NI on AMD CPUs. In fact, modern Intel CPUs under some tricky circumstances can execute up to 8 (eight!) AES-NI instructions in parallel when running thread on single core with no HT (yam uses this trick, it is neither well documented nor widely used, but I know what I do), while AMD CPUs as of my knowledge do not go higher than 6 (six) [but here I am speculating tbh - never had chance to get to trusted information source on this matter].

Yam implements several typical degrees of instruction level parallelism as different AVs, and you clearly see a winner during finetuning.

Additionally latest Intel CPUs have very interesting L1 cache management tricks that are very useful for accelerating specifically MMC.

The side effect of these optimizations (especially that trick with AES) is that you can easily get your CPU to much higher temps than any usual sowftare, including IntelBurnTest specially designed to stress test CPU overheating. This may easily lead heavily OCed systems to unstable/crash/reboot state. As of my opinion, there's nothing dangerous, except some chance of loosing data - as in any usual sudden reset.

This is very very basic explanation, but hopefully you got some idea.
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Offline yvg1900

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 06:09:04 PM »
Can you explain why AMD Processors have less performance per GH than Intel Processors?
Is it the faster AVX optimizations or bad AMD architecture for AES-NI?
But on Haswell machines it is of course AVX2 as well - also gives some bonus on SHA-512 phase.
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Offline Delinquency

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 09:01:39 PM »
Yvg1900, you have explained it well.
Not many new miners going into mining know about the performance differences between Intel and AMD.

Hopefully we can create a more detailed database with the communities support.

Offline yvg1900

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Re: +Memory = -HPM
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 09:33:36 PM »
It is possible to coordinate testing with mercuryminer at ypool.net chat - he is managing a group of miner testers and gathers all the reports.
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